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Saturn in Sagittarius and Neptune in Pisces: Form and Formlessness


Saturn wants to manifest as form while Neptune wants to stay formless. When these two connect we have a dilemma and a challenge. Do we move from the formless into form, or do we move from form to the formless? Can both exist simultaneously?

I wish I didn’t have to write about this topic, but I feel I must. We are edging ever closer to the exact square of these two, and it’s important that we look at what they will portend and mean in our lives. Right now Saturn is Retrograde at 4+ degrees of Sagittarius while Neptune is direct at 8+ degrees of Pisces. That’s just a 4 degree difference. Close enough to have an impact!


Please note that this is a waning square indicating that Saturn is moving back towards Neptune rather than away from it. Neptune in Pisces is very, very powerful because Neptune rules Pisces. This watery sign is evocative of the ocean and her depth, breadth, and unpredictable changes on the surface. Saturn is an earth planet in a fire sign which isn’t exactly its place of empowerment, yet Saturn can sharpen the aim that motivates Sagittarius in its quest for meaning. I have already written one article about this journey back in January. Now we see that Saturn in this effort to determine a focused path ahead cannot avoid Neptune’s dissolution. So this is the challenge: what is dissolving away in your life? In that process, where do you need to refocus your aim? That’s a rather simplistic way of defining what can seem incredibly hard. There is an element of sacrifice implied here and we each need to determine where and how we allow for this. What must we be willing to release? Is it something physical? Is it an emotional attachment? Is it a dream, an unfinished plan? Is it even a belief?


There’s going to be some grief here undoubtedly. Saying goodbye to anything we are attached to is painful. On a global scale we are witnessing the disappearance of entire species at faster and faster rates due to climate change accelerating. Trees, for example, are dying at an alarming rate in the Southwest of the United States due to drought, a Saturn/Neptune theme.(Though Saturn/Neptune is often as easily associated with deluges such as the Asian Tsunami or Katrina maelstrom when Saturn was opposite Neptune in 2004-2005) One scientist, a Postdoctoral student at Los Alamos National Laboratory named Park Williams, has stated, after looking at a millennium’s worth of data called the FDSI (forest-drought stress index), “The result was totally unimaginable: wildfires, bark beetles, a huge reduction in forest growth, massive mortality…All over New Mexico, trees keeled over. It was like they’d been transported onto a new planet where climate is entirely different than what they were evolved for.”


There’s increasing grief in the displaced thousands upon thousands of people now in war-torn regions of the planet where escalating conflicts between secularism and religion are creating tragedies beyond comprehension. This profound loss and sorrow is so pervasive that we are left dazed by the flood of stories coming at us like tidal waves on the daily news.


More collective examples could be discussed, but let’s get back to the personal. This aspect is going to be with us until September of 2016 so there’s plenty of time ahead to review the global implications. Right now I prefer to focus on useful information in dealing with it in our individual lives. So take a look at your own chart to see where these two are moving. What house/area of your life does Saturn want you to get more realistic about, and deal with the world of form? What house/area of your life is Neptune slowly but surely dissolving away the old in readiness for something altogether new? Do you have personal planets impacted by these energies? The early degrees of mutable signs are feeling this strongly with Sagittarius and Pisces getting the closest direct hits. Saturn will be in square to both Pisces and Virgo, and opposite Gemini, while Neptune is in square to Sagittarius and Gemini and opposite Virgo. The key with mutable signs is adaptation. They do yield more easily than fixed signs! Flexibility is called for. I like to use the metaphor of surfing when dealing with Neptune. You’ve got to catch and ride those waves while maintaining your balance. Perhaps your surfboard is Saturn. It now needs to be light enough and strong enough to both hold you and skim through the ever changing waves of life. This isn’t exactly like standing with feet splayed on terra firma ready to aim your arrow to the bulls eye. It’s more like keeping your eye on the shore as Neptune rolls you forward!

Saturn implies duty and responsibility. With Neptune in the equation it isn’t wise to escape our responsibilities, but rather to accept them. It may be difficult to always carry out duties with a sense of compassion, but that is the discipline and the spiritual work. The sense of being overwhelmed may engulf us again and again, but the need is to persist with saturnine determination. Perhaps you have decided to purify and refine your health practices. Perhaps this is a good time to detox. When the die-off occurs, don’t give up even if waves of nausea make you want to. Persist. This is a theme here. Persist! The sense of well-being that you are determined to gain will come.

This combination of energies seems to encourage even the release of accumulated possessions where sentimentality (Pisces) is holding us back from simplifying and moving forward (Sagittarius). I’ve been weeding out reams of mementos that probably have no meaning to anyone else but myself. On the other hand, if you feel there is some historical value to your letters and clippings then perhaps it’s a good time to archive them properly.

The age at which you are experiencing this combo does make a difference! If you are young there are fewer accumulations in your life to release. You may be dealing, however, with collective issues which hold you back from forging ahead unfettered such as the enormous cost of education today and the weight of those student loans on your back. Young people today must deal with the blunders of previous generations which create the hurdles to overcome in their own future which now are compounded due to global warming, endless wars, and even over-population.

For the baby boomer generations, swelling now in large numbers, there is a new awareness of how to face mortality and that inevitable journey into the formless. Neptune symbolizes the ‘womb of life’, that amorphous place where we float suspended in time and space. The gateway known as death is now being explored anew with more meaningful ways to exit the world of form. Here in California the organization (Saturn) called ‘Compassion (Neptune) and Choices (Saturn)’ is pushing forward with the End-of-Life Option Act (SB 128). This new way of looking at and handling one’s own exit from the world of form is growing in the United States thanks to the work of dedicated souls who will persist. I can think of no better example close to home than this of a positive Saturn/Neptune consciousness.

Another theme implied in this square is working (Saturn) for peace (Neptune).  I just saw a client, Lily Marie, whom I’ve been serving for umpteen years who is an Aries crusader for peace in the true sense of the word.  She was born shortly after the conjunction of Neptune and Saturn in 1955 and her unflagging resolve to persist, and keep persisting is most inspiring to behold.  Right now Aries people are greatly aided by Saturn in Sagittarius in reaching their goals and championing their causes as pioneers.  Neptune is moving towards Aries from it’s 12th house side, and this woman has Venus in Pisces.  In addition to her work with the Peace Alliance she is a wonderful grief counselor.  She told me that she takes the earnings from that work and puts them into her special outreach work.  Here’s her affirmation which I will certainly start to use as a Saturn/Neptune manifesting mantra, “I will always have all I need to thrive and I will express gratitude by being all I can for the common good.”  How beautiful is that?

This waning square may also mean some sort of crisis of consciousness going on in your life around your beliefs. Saturn can be quite skeptical and judgmental of what is perceived as Neptune’s illusions. It’s probably a good time to sort out for yourself what is valid and true where your beliefs are concerned. This may mean a soul searching time. Have you been following a teacher or teachings blindly without examining more closely their basis of authority? ‘By their fruits ye shall know them’ is often a good guideline when assessing for yourself what rings true.

Pope Francis

Pope Francis

I’ll close with the sterling example of Pope Francis, born in 1936 when Saturn in Pisces was opposite Neptune in Virgo. Within the vast enclave of wealth and power that the Vatican represents is a Pope of greater humility and awareness of the original teachings of Jesus and Christianity which embrace the poor and downtrodden as worthy of compassion and care.



Pope Francis actually has a grand cross in mutable energies with Sun in Sagittarius opposite Chiron in Gemini forming the other axis of his ‘cross’. He is a Pope for all the people (though perhaps he has a ways to go in embracing equality for women!). He is trying to walk his talk by dissolving the accoutrements of wealth and power that his official role generally wears. We need more leaders and people in authority like him now who lead by example rather than by decree.

Here are listed the dates of the high marks in this present Saturn/Neptune cycle. You may want to review what was taking place in your life at the first imprint/conjunction, the opening square, and the last opposition. This cycle won’t complete until 2025 when the two join together for a new cycle in Pisces. Much is yet to be dissolved as a new world yet to be envisioned emerges.

The conjunction: 1989 in Capricorn
The Waxing square: 1999 with Saturn in Taurus square Neptune in Aquarius
The Opposition: 2005-2006 with Saturn in Leo opposite Neptune in Aquarius
This Waning square: 2015/16
Next Conjunction in Pisces: 2025

April 8, 2015  14 Comments
Categories: Astrology, Neptune, Pisces, Sagittarius, Saturn | Tags: , , , , ,


1 Mary Erangey { 04.11.15 at 4:43 am }

i was particularly struck by what you wrote about Saturn and responsibility. I am wrestling with maintaining sense of heartful commitment to my work; 16 years has dissolved my enthusiasm. As you wrote, “It may be difficult to always carry out duties with a sense of compassion, but that is the discipline and the spiritual work. The sense of being overwhelmed may engulf us again and again, but the need is to persist with saturnine determination.” But a new vision is starting to emerge. So I will persist, choosing to believe that “The sense of well-being that you are determined to gain will come.” Thank you Genevieve for this insightful post. My love to you.

2 Genevieve Vierling { 04.11.15 at 2:42 pm }

Thank you for sharing Mary! I’m sure there are millions of people in your shoes who need to work to survive but have lost the passion. I’m glad you have a new vision! You also have your wonderful music that is such fun and brings people good vibes!

3 gael thompson { 04.11.15 at 6:55 am }

Genevieve, your expression of planetary influence always staggers me. This one in particular, as there are activities you have mentioned here that are already in motion in my life. Thank you for the planetary context, which brings deeper discernment. You are always so dear to me.

4 Genevieve Vierling { 04.11.15 at 2:45 pm }

Dear Gael, I always appreciate your comments and support! I would think your ‘Tibetan House’ is bringing much wisdom and compassion to New Orleans, but also much beauty as well! It’s readers like you and Mary that make my efforts so satisfying. 🙂

5 Vanessa { 04.13.15 at 8:54 am }

Genevieve, another great post. As I read through it, I felt you were describing my inner landscape! Right now, I have tr. Saturn also squaring my n. Moon, opp. my Sun too! I have started to work with FasterEFT to help me dissolve old belief programming! Definitely working around dissolving old beliefs is a theme for me now.
I have tr. Saturn going through my relationship house and tr. Neptune in my 10th – I’m really struggling with career issues and feel pulled to reexamine my relationships. Oh the joys of midlife! 🙂
Thank you for this wonderfully thought provoking post.

6 Genevieve Vierling { 04.13.15 at 1:08 pm }

You are most welcome Vanessa! I always appreciate your very specific comments so we can all learn. I believe you and I are the reverse mirrors of each other with our Suns and Moons. Nice! I, too, have done some of the EFT work. It’s marvelous that we now have much quicker ways to release old brain tapes. I hope Neptune helps you also to refine your 10th house skills. You are such a wonderful artist in addition to all your other skills.

7 Vanessa { 04.13.15 at 10:32 am }

Hi Genevieve – I typed up another comment, but for some reason it’s not showing. In any case, thank you for this yet another excellent post. I feel it describes my inner landscape so well – it’s almost freaky! 🙂 (tr. Saturn is in my 7th squaring my n. Moon in the 10th. tr. Neptune is conj. my n. Moon, sq. my n. Sun and sq. my n. Mercury too! – Fun times!

8 Genevieve Vierling { 04.13.15 at 1:09 pm }

I just didn’t have time to respond quickly enough to your first comments! Thanks again.

9 Vanessa { 04.14.15 at 2:27 pm }

Thank you Genevieve. I was too quick on the trigger to send another comment, not realizing you need to moderate them! 🙂 Ah, it’s those Gemini planets of mine!
Yes, I hope refinement is the key with Neptune in the 10th. Thankfully I don’t feel as lost at sea as I did when it was conjunct my MC. Now it’s more about traversing the land of surrender, not an easy thing for me. (Although I guess I’m not the only one here.) I have found thus far Neptune’s transit harder than Saturn’s – but then again, perhaps there is this feminine element in Neptune that is coming up for rebalance in my own psyche.
So your Sun is in Pisces and your Moon in Gemini? How does the feel?

10 Genevieve Vierling { 04.14.15 at 3:05 pm }

Vanessa, I’m sure your Gemini wants answers and Neptune isn’t that obvious nor necessarily concrete is it? Yes, I’ve the dilemma in reverse of you! It feels ambivalent much of the time. I remember when I first started studying astrology I believe it was Grant Lewi who wrote, “You say yes when you should say no, and you say no when you should say yes” So I’ve done that, been there, and try my best to not get myself further confused/ha. I’ve learned, however, to turn more within for my answers and LISTEN. That’s one of my key’s anyway. I’ve also learned to allow my feelings to rise up and out even if they don’t make sense. So do you find that you must make ‘sense’ out of the myriad of confusing emotions that do arise and swirl all around you with Moon in Pisces/Sun in Gemini? I know of no more sensitive Moon than yours.

11 Vanessa { 04.16.15 at 3:25 pm }

Good questions Genevieve. I feel it’s more about trying to make sense of emotions but not really trusting them – more like second guessing them. But then they prove to be right. It’s a dance I do and I’m still stepping on my own toes!
I’m still getting acquainted and comfortable with my Moon, it’s been a learning process. I know now that I need down time, quiet time, dream time, vacation time to feel better.
I’m trying more and more trust my intuition and go with that, instead of monkey mind of Sun Gemini. But Sun Gemini does help that Moon in Pisces too – it helps me get perspective and be objective. That way I don’t just drown in emotions.

12 Genevieve Vierling { 04.16.15 at 4:04 pm }

That’s an excellent explanation Vanessa! Air and Water is such a fascinating combination, and when in Mutable signs it does keep one on one’s toes almost constantly. I can relate to the ‘stepping on one’s own toes’ in the process! I do know I need a lot of movement and definitely prefer walking meditations to sitting ones, though working as an intuitive for so many years it’s easy to go into trance for others and sit and sit while doing so. So you need the down time and I WANT it!!!

13 Sarah { 08.09.15 at 11:26 am }

Hi, again a beautiful article!! You really seems to have an “understanding” of Neptune! 🙂 I am trying to tap into its energy, but either i can’t, either it feels so natural that i feel no ‘difference’. How would you describe the energy of Neptune? Some describe ie as “deception” or “illusion”, but I always feel like every coin has two sides, so i prefer not to look for “deception and illusion” every time Neptune plays up in my natal chart. Another question: Saturn has stationed direct last week and will be moving back into Sag on the 6th September…will it be making another square with Neptune then? Or is Neptune moving faster through Pisces? Kind regards!

14 Genevieve Vierling { 08.11.15 at 3:30 pm }

Sarah—Thank you for all that you share. I find Neptune to be like liquid velvet when it is sweet and soothing. It’s like gliding through a beautiful dream. I have many Neptunian dreams and they are always wonderful, like swimming under water with large whale-like creatures, or sliding down shoots in the moonlight.

Yes, Saturn will be in an exact square to Neptune by the end of November into early December. I’ll have to look at 2016 to see whether they link up again in any tight square. Don’t have that ephemeris in front of me just now.

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