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The Mutable Dilemma Returns: Neptune/Chiron in Pisces, Saturn in Sagittarius, and Jupiter/Mars in Virgo



Finding our way through the plethora of opinions, attitudes, and beliefs is the labyrinth we will be traversing in the many months ahead. How we determine for ourselves what to think about and what to base our beliefs on will be critical.

Neptune in Pisces brings us an ocean of images now via the media and especially the inter-net. There is a great article on this in the most recent TMA entitled ‘An Ocean of Images, Saturn square Neptune: icons, symbols, and signs” by Jason Holley. What dream, vision, or even fantasy is calling to you?  With Chiron here as well, we need to determine which are healing and which are further wounding.

Saturn in Sagittarius asks us to re-focus our aims and get serious about the meaning we place on life. What does guide our actions as well as our ambitions?  We are seeing this in the daily news as crisis after crisis unfolds around beliefs and action. The county clerk, Kim Davis of Kentucky, is a good example.  She took a strong stand against marriage rights, and in so doing rallied  support from like-minded ‘believers’.   She went too far, however, by stating a lie which was later publicly denied by the Pope.   He represents the higher principle of standing behind strong beliefs with actions that will basically help all of humankind right now, not just the bigoted few.  Below is his chart showing his strong Mutable energies.


Jupiter, and now Mars, are in Virgo which will expand and catalyze our attention towards details, details, details in the everyday mechanics of life where being present and here now truly do matter. This requires discriminating skill to know what is best for greater well-being and what is destructive. Like the small intestines that Virgo ‘rules’ it’s important to separate out what is and isn’t useful to the whole organism.

(I’ve written about all of the above in separate articles on this blog.  For a review please enter ‘Saturn in Sagittarius, Neptune & Chiron in Pisces’, etc. in the search window to bring them up.)

The Mutable signs start with Gemini, move to Virgo, Sagittarius, and finally end with Pisces. These signs all mediate between the Cardinal action signs and the Fixed power signs. How do they do this? By arranging and re-arranging mentally, physically, intuitively, and emotionally the connections that will ultimately harmonize spiralic patterns of energy that encourage growth and evolution. These Mutable signs all need to be fairly adaptable, intelligent, and flexible. When ‘afflicted’ they become unreliable, often  lacking in responsibility, decision-making and even moral principle.  We certainly see both sides at work in the world today.

The long-standing Neptune square Saturn is beginning in earnest. (See my article on this theme published April 8, 2015)  This may manifest as a dictatorial command of beliefs, or a concerted attempt to direct how images (Neptune) are to be interpreted, yet Neptune is the stronger being the outermost of the two. Neptune will engulf, erode, and drown out Saturn in a fire sign creating confusion and chaos in its wake. The mass migration of war-torn peoples is a good example, which I wrote about in my last article. Climate change is another example. Saturn boundaries and fences will not be able to withstand something far vaster and all encompassing such as Neptune in its own sign of Pisces. Saturn can not completely control this deluge.

Personally, there will be anxiety, fears, phobias, and even guilt arising as the unconscious leaks through the barriers of ego-defense mechanisms in individuals, even in mass collective ego-centric consciousness. What is an antidote?  Going within through various methods of introspection us one way.


In my small world here in the Sierra Foothills there are many dream groups.  I belong to one that meets twice monthly and we are utilizing a form of dream-tending called ‘The World Dream’ as part of our process. Is the world dreaming us?  We are exploring that very idea. Some dreams seem to speak to something beyond the personal. We may share these dreams within the group and even freely associate and act out aspects of the dream. We are also taking the images and creating beautiful collages with them so that all these images are joined together in a Saturn-like ‘form’ that also leaves the mystery open-ended.


These images and work are joining up with other groups on Facebook as Stephen Aizenstat  spear-heads this new collective movement.  May it contribute to the healing of the planet and its peoples!


Here’s one of my ‘World Dreams’: “I am in the woods surrounded by cabins with members of my family. We are preparing for a possible large dragon. A boy has already seen a rather small one. I look up and see an enormous turtle with wings flying into the trees over our heads. I immediately ask, ‘Oh wise one. You have come. What message do you bear for us?’

The turtle, whose under belly I can clearly see, speaks and tells us that very large dragons are coming and that we should prepare and secure safety for ourselves. These dragons will be at least 40 feet long. I do see a couple of very tiny ones buzzing around above the ground near us. They are made of metal.

A large white dog comes up to me and whispers in my ear saying that he wants me to adopt him and take him inside one of the cabins as he is concerned for our safety.  I put my arms around him and say that I will.”

I have abbreviated this rather long dream to illustrate some of the features a world dream might have. It may have more collective issues expressed and have a rather numinous quality to it, like a vision.   I first had this dream in 2010. Since then a series of talking animal dreams have gained in frequency as though messages from the animal kingdom are getting stronger for me. Now in 2015 I realize the metal dragons might possibly symbolize drones. We have a large air force base near us out of which major spy planes originate.  I just learned that these are all drones. But these are conjectures on my part.  It may take time for such a dream to reveal its mystery.  America used to be called ‘Turtle Island’ by native peoples inhabiting it for millennia before it became the United States.

Saturn guilt?  I’ve recently learned that my 8th great-grandfather landed here on the Mayflower.  He came seeking freedom from oppression.  Did he also help bring his own form of oppression to the native inhabitants?  I have much to reflect on with this Neptune/Saturn square I realize. Saturn in Sagittarius may take us into the future, but it also necessitates knowing our history and studying our roots. Where do we come from in our own blood-line? This, too, is worth noting.  Can we learn from the past and mistakes made in the past?

Svetlana Alexievich

Svetlana Alexievich

Svetlana Alexievich, Nobel prize winner for literature this year, asks that very question, “Why haven’t we learned from all this suffering?  Why can’t we say: I don’t want to be a slave anymore.  Why do we suffer again and again?  Why does this remain our burden and fate?”  We need great writers like her to keep us conscious.  Perhaps Saturn square Neptune will bring these truths more squarely in our collective face.

Jupiter in Virgo is opposing Neptune and forming a rather wide square with Saturn. Mars is now in Virgo for this month as well catalyzing the energies of dissecting, analyzing, and separating out what works and what doesn’t for each of us. Virgo has so much to do with maintaining ourselves in life: harvesting and cooking food, making clothing, finishing and crafting shelters and homes, raising domestic animals and pets, repairing and fixing everything that breaks down in terms of the daily equipment we need, taking care of our physical and mental health. This list can go on and on…In the face of Neptune’s vast reaches globally and universally, what really matters in our daily lives? We are each now faced with that awareness and thus what we will do about it.


I’ll give you a good example from my own life for the second time:  I was born with ‘the Mutable Dilemma’. My birth chart contains a T-square encompassing 6 planets in Mutable signs as well as about three asteroids. I have always had way too many interests and tried to experience as many of them as possible. One is reading. At one point in time we had over 10,000 books in our personal library. There was never enough space to encompass them all, and I was always the designated ‘librarian’ (having taken Library Science in college of course!). I was always ordering them on the shelves, packing and unpacking them every time we moved, and thus not having time enough to just read them because my ‘Virgoan’ compulsion to order was greater than my Sagittarius desire to just read and explore and live with the mess of books piled here, there, and everywhere.  My husband with his Venus in Sagittarius didn’t have that problem! ☺ Years and years later, now living in a two-room (they ARE large rooms) barn house in the woods, we still have books everywhere, but I’ve finally let go of the conflict of never having enough hours in the day to put them in order and/or read them. Neptune in Pisces has finally had her say. “I don’t care!” So there is some semblance of order and there are piles, and whether I read any more is a mute point. I’d rather go walking in the woods anyway. But—oh yes! —I’m still listing and selling on Amazon under ‘Wild Lily Books’ should you care to buy one. ☺

So have fun with your own mutable dilemmas. Time and space in a finite body can’t completely do it all, experience it all, or take it all in. So pick and choose carefully as you wade through the inundation of ‘the web’ with its laptops, cell phones, ipads, iphones, and endless ways to keep you from actually living live experientially on the planet, smelling the roses, seeing a sunset, kissing your beloved, or cooking and eating a home-cooked, delicious meal.  Pick and choose carefully and don’t leave your body—–please!


(Please note Kathy’s New Moon in Libra video in the sidebar!)

October 8, 2015  5 Comments
Categories: Astrology, Chiron, Dream Interpretation, Jupiter, Mars, Neptune, Pisces, Sagittarius, Saturn, Virgo | Tags: , , , , , , , ,


1 Vanessa { 10.13.15 at 3:35 pm }

As always a good read! 🙂 I love how you too have more books than you can possibly read! I too have that problem! A
Also your dream is just so powerful! But in hearing about your dream group, it made me feel that I’d like to participate in one again. For a couple of years, my dreams were ‘missing’, but in the last 6 months, they have returned ‘with a vengeance’. Nice to have them back.

(And I have a Mutable T-Square too. With 7 planets! It’s a mad house in there with ideas flying all over the place!)

2 Genevieve Vierling { 10.15.15 at 8:00 pm }

Thanks Vanessa,
You and I could have a lively time of it should we ever meet in person. The dream world is certainly going to be more and more accessible with these energies I feel. It’s just going to be difficult to edit the flooding of images that are coming. I woke up this morning with too many dreams still fresh in my consciousness to write them all down.

3 Sanna { 10.22.15 at 1:12 am }

Thanks! A good article! I was laughing when you wrote about arranging your book shells! I’ve had a little bit same problem for months now, not with books but arranging my home. I’ve just moved in the new flat and – oh, I am so tired just to pack things and unpack things, find place for them, go to storers to find some new furnitures… I’d have something better to do, for example study astrology 🙂 I never knew before that making a home is this boring. I am fed up. Some women love to decorate their home, especially the new one, but I am bored. So bored I just wanted to put my hand in “real” work and that’s it. Whenever I should go to Ikea or to the other shop to find something I need, I go to take a nap, the idea of going there feels so tiring. Fortunately there is a netshop! Well, the transiting Saturn is in my 4th house and the transiting Neptune is in the 8th house, conjuncting my natal Saturn there. So maybe this means: Saturn asks me to arrange my home and the Neptune whispers: No, there is something more interesting in the world… And Jupiter in Virgo (2nd house) opposition (and in conjunct with my stellium Mars/Uranus/Pluto) to Neptune is doing his job, too: my cat is sick, she is old and needs extra care, I go to yoga, take care of my health etc. And Chiron’s return is on, too, making me feel quite depressive some and then. It is just those old things that come in my mind and my daughter tells me: Can’t you just forget those old thing…? No, I can not, because I see them in the new light. That is the difference from the past speculations. Setting own, better private boundaries has also been the issue. Not to mention,t hat I’m Aries and Uranus is now in conjunct with my Midheaven. So much going on in every level!

4 Genevieve Vierling { 10.22.15 at 1:58 pm }

Great comments Sanna! I’m sure many readers can relate. So Saturn in Pisces/Chiron in Pisces? And that Uranus/Pluto opposition in Virgo with your Mars. Wondering where your Venus is? I just wrote a new article on some of that. Venus is obviously what gives you pleasure. It’s decidedly not a Virgo theme—-at least that’s what I get! And your ‘ambition’ is to dive into the mysteries without all those mundane chores. I wish you well with his Mutable dilemma theme. I can empathize!

5 Mutable Signs { 06.16.18 at 1:41 am }

The mutable symbols of the Zodiac, Virgo, Gemini, Sagittarius, as well as Pisces, signify energies that are supple, adaptable and forthcoming. Obviously, every one of these symbols ls remnants factual their element, however, how this section is stated is where we could see this Variable quality. As Cardinal Symbols provide us the essential power to initiate

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